On the podcast "CIPFA Speaks!," produced by the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy in the United Kingdom, I discuss with CIPFA's chief economist Jeffrey Matsu what it will take to get at the roots of the extreme wealth inequality seen in both the UK and the United States.

"It's going to take something more than regulation, more than some new laws," I say. "We need a fundamental redesign. Rather than massive inequality being created, and then we try to redistribute some of it on the other end through tax laws and so forth, we need a system that is almost predistributive. It creates greater equality, better environmental outcomes as it goes."

You will hear in this podcast how we brought that thinking to bear in the formation of the Evergreen Cooperatives in Cleveland, Ohio, and how leaders in such UK communities as Preston and North Ayrshire are building on that to create municipality-wide community wealth building models that are "really rewiring the local economy" to build lasting wealth for local residents with an emphasis on equity and protecting the planet.

My chat with Jeffrey Matsu starts at about 16:30, after CIPFA local government policy manager Joanne Pitt's discussion with Marcus Richards, director at EY, toondiscuss resilience in the local government sector.